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Posted by on May 15, 2012 in Blog | 39 comments

Taking a Leap of Faith with Fringe.

Taking a Leap of Faith with Fringe.

 

In this past season of Fringe, the fans of the show have been asked to take a leap of faith as the series re-spun itself into a new timeline.  Now that the season has come to its conclusion I would like to know if you all thought it was worth it.

We all know Peter was removed from the time line only to be re-inserted into a world where no one knew who he was (except for Olivia eventually, and we’ll get to that shortly).  Was it worth it to you all for Peter to be transported to this strange new land?  Did you feel it betrayed the earlier narrative of the previous three seasons?  Or, are happy no matter what Fringe does to itself as long as the series continues?

Here are a few more “gripes” that are worthy of examination.

  • What of Olivia and her reformed memory?  Was Walter 2.0 correct in declaring Peter responsible for this transference?  How did Olivia retrieve the memories of a time line she was not a part of?  How can September tell Peter, “She is your Olivia” when no one else in that world is?
  • What of the downfall of David Robert Jones?  He was heavily invested in his Shape-shifters, so much so that he cried when he sacrificed one of them.  Yet the Shape-shifters played no role at the end and Jones himself was reduced to a pawn set to ash.  How does that sit with you?
  • What of the ultimate master puppeteer, William Bell?  He is now cast as the bad guy.  He is shown to be utterly delusional and beyond redemption.  Shouldn’t he be allowed absolution the same way Walter 1.0 was?  He declared himself a god.  Isn’t that beyond redemption and goes against one of the major themes of the show of hubris and forgiveness?
  • Back to Olivia.  She finally comes to terms with her abilities and is told by Nina that she was capable of this all along.  Yet when push comes to shove she was reduced to an “off” switch by taking a bullet to the forehead.  For all her sacrifice and suffering she was still a lab rat to Walter and Bell.  Bell manipulated her as a simple battery and the Walter pulled the plug on her.  Is that fair to the character?
  • Has Fringe become too clever for its own good?  The original title of the last two episodes were “End Game, Parts 1 and 2.”  When Leonard Nimoy was secured to play William Bell once again, it wasn’t long before the season conclusion was renamed “Brave New World Parts 1 and 2.”  Fringe loves to make call backs to its characters and stars’ previous work.  Nimoy was in a 1998 made for TV movie as the character, Mustapha Mond of  a “Brave New World” .  A little too clever of Fringe?  Did this inclusion of Nimoy lead to a re-write of the final episodes that some mistook for the filming of two alternate endings of season four?

These are just a few of the head-scratchers we were presented with this year.  There are many things to be thankful for and many other things that Fringe did well.  So if you are fine with all of the aforementioned than please tell me so and share your thoughts with the rest of the community.

If some or all of these things don’t sit well with you then by all means tell us how you feel also.

Freedom of speech no matter what time-line, universe or dimension!

(The above GIF comes from the tumblr page, “Observer Totalitarianism” visit it here.)

39 Comments

  1. Interdimensional Dave,

    All good questions! I do think the s4 rewritten timeline was worth it. I always liked the exploration of how 1 person can leave an indelible mark on the soul’s of others, an imprint as they stated in the one episode. The overarching theme I think was an existential exploration of identity and soul of the characters with different memories due to Peter’s erasure. Then we had the effect of Peter’s return causing the old personalities to somewhat return, eventhough the memories remained altered except for Olivia. I thought Fringe explored this theme very effectively. And it is somewhat reminincent of how the show Lost explored the same themes. I’ve thought for sometime the 2 shows have way more in common than people realize, ( and I’m not sure Lost is always given the credit it deserves for this, but that is another discussion. ;-) )

    I always subscribed to the rerecorded tape analogy for the timeline, so regarding Olivia, I just assumed her unique cortexifan abilities allowed her mind to tap into the “initial recording” underneath. Something the other characters lacked. Maybe I’m wrong about that, I’m not for sure.

    Agree with the gripe about Jones’ demise. What bothers me is that he was doing the same thing in activating Olivia in both timelines, confirmed by September. Yet Bell was completely different in the timelines, hard to reconcile this. Plus loving the DRJ character, he deserved to go out in grander fashion.
    And William Bell I guess we are to assume was tempered in the original timeline somehow. Perhaps Nina had less restraint on him in the new timeline because of spending more time with Olivia? I do like the way the finale showed the consequences of unbounded hubris by Bell not to mention the ridiculousness of declaring himself god. He wasn’t creating an universe Ex Nihilo after all.

    Regarding Olivia, I’ve lost track of all the ways she’s been manipulated with people in her head, brainwashings, and cortexifan. Not fair but she endures! I am glad she was depowered, I don’t think you can continue to have a character that powerful with all those abilities.

    Remains to be seen if Fringe out clevered itself, I don’t think so, despite some of the issues in the finale you raised. Pinkner and Wyman have stated in interviews that we diehard fans will be rewarded in season 5 and that all the seasons will tie toghether. I for one still have faith in them and look forward to the final 13 episodes!

    Chris

    • Forgot to say this was @lostweatherguy on twitter Chris.

    • Hi Chris, Good work bringing up the existential angle. If there is one thing in general that science fiction explores, it is existentialism. (Chris, see the movie, “Another Earth” by the way.) I’m a bit miffed I didn’t think of it myself. If we spin this past season as an examination of the human condition as an existentialist experiment then it works. I’m not entirely convinced that was their intent and if it was I’m not sure they pulled it off either. This type of thing is in their wheelhouse however and if you can present an episode that best exemplifies your case I’d be willing to re-watch it and re-consider my position.

      I remember the “rerecorded tape” as a position of yours from the twitter-verse and various blogs. In some respects it makes sense but in theoretical science (like string theory) it does not. My thinking is, if it worked for Olivia it should have worked for Walter in the same manner.

      As far as Bell’s “sea change” is concerned, I was hoping they were going to explore the possibility that there are two Bells still in existence (I blogged about it.) Perhaps we’ll have to wait till next season to discover this if at all.

      I have to say I was also hoping that Bell was going to create a bubble universe “ex nihilo”. Isn’t that what gods to? Something out of nothing?

      Thanks for reminding me that Olivia was “depowered” this should save us a lot of complications in the next season. We saw her with powers in 2025 (?) and she wasn’t very good at stopping powers then despite her ability.

      I saw the same thing from P & W. If I was a cynical man (and I am) I would call it pre-game hype. I’ll be watching though, what kind of Observer would I be if I didn’t?

      Great reply Chris.

      • Dave,

        Thanks for the kind words and response, and for responding to all of us, this has been fun reading.

        I actually did watch “Another Earth” last January, thought it was a great little independent film examining these issues. Have no idea why I never thought about it while thinking about Fringe on here until you brought it up, lol.

        Regarding specific episodes I’ll have to get back with you. I plan to follow Daryl & Clint’s re-watch schedule but it will be a while before we are at s4. I do however recall in ep 4-2, I thought this existential theme was foreshadowed between the 2 universes with the serial killer who was stealing memories/ professor character and altcharacter (forget his name). He lacked an encounter with the woman in the redverse much the same as the amber timeline characters lacked the presence of Peter.

        You may be right about the rerecorded timeline analogy being incompatible with string theory. I think the analogy works with an A theory of time (dynamic) whereas String theory I believe requires a B theory of time (static). But we must always not forget the “fiction” in science-fiction.

        My point about Bell was that even if he had sucessfully played god, he still wouldn’t have done it Ex Nihilo because it required Olivia’s cortexifaned brain and the collapse of already existing universes.

        Finally, I’m probably not cynical enough regarding Fringe, weird because I am about many things. Hope I’m not setting up for a major disappointment when it’s all over, ha!

        Chris
        @lostweatherguy (twitter)

        • Chris,

          Good to know you caught “Another Earth” it’s a must see for all Fringe fans out there. An interesting take on similar themes that Fringe explores.

          As for specific episodes to justify your position I do recall the episode you refer to. I can see the parallel to someone’s life changing by not having the right person around to influence you. But Fringe contradicts itself by giving us another episode where the two Lincoln Lee’s meet and the difference in character comes down to a life decision instead. I refer to that episode below where I responded to Raul’s reply. If you have the time check out our dueling “War and Peace” entries.

          As for Bell and his universe hopping. I wonder why he just didn’t open a portal to another universe. One that was free of any human influence. It seems unnecessary to fold two over to make a new one. I guess that’s where the “mad” in mad scientist comes from.

          I need to find my cynicism switch and turn it off for a while, or at least mute it. I’m getting bad.

          Thanks Chris!

  2. Interdimensional Dave,

    I definitely don’t think that the rebooted timeline was worth it. While I have enjoyed this season overall, I’m with the camp of people that have a problem with the first three seasons being negated. There are too many issues from the last three seasons that were resolved but not “really” resolved. That’s a part of the reason that the episode World’s Apart didn’t really resonate with me like I had hoped. The two sides had resolved their issues, but they were different issues than what we had seen.

    I enjoyed season three’s progression of Fauxlivia and seeing her change through her interactions with Peter and having a child. I wanted to see how someone as bitter and evil as Walternate could be redeemed and work with the man who stole and raised his child. How could these two sides begin to work together to heal their worlds? The answer: just rewrite the timeline so we don’t have to deal with it. We get a new timeline with a Fauxlivia that never went through that emotional rollercoaster, and a watered down version of Walternate.

    Now to the gripes that you had mentioned:

    I was originally happy about Olivia regaining her memories. It was obvious to me that there was no original timeline to get back to. But I wasn’t too fond of the execution. Why did cortexiphan allow her memories to come back? How did Olivia feel about being in an all new timeline where she killed her stepfather and has a nephew? We got glimpses of this but never got to know how she felt about her entire life being different than what she remembered.

    DRJ I think was an over hyped villain, and honestly I was glad when his character was killed off. There was a lot of build up and really no payoff. And it does bother me that the shapeshifters were never heard from again. They invested so much time into the new breed of shapeshifters and they are literally never even brought up after “Everything in it’s Right Place.” At least DRJ was consistent with his motives.

    Which brings me to William Bell. There was a sense throughout the season that DRJ wasn’t the main villain. To me it seems the writers had a plan with DRJ and the shapeshifters and towards the end of the season they changed the plan to include Bell. I understand that this is a new timeline and the characters are different, but Bell is almost a completely different character. We never knew him to have delusions of grandeur near this extent before. He’s what helped keep Walter in check and now he believes he’s God, and willing to destroy two universes. This guy in contrast to the William Bell that sacrificed himself so that his friends could get back to their universe.

    In regards to Olivia being reduced to a power source for William Bell. Once again I have to blame the timeline change. She had abilities the first three seasons but they were for a different purpose. It was all about expanding the human potential and seeing how far we could advance. Surely William Bell wasn’t going to use her as a power source for a new universe. If we hadn’t had the timeline change, there is no telling what here powers could have been used for. I seriously doubt that all along her powers were just going to be used as a power source.

    I don’t want to make it sound like I don’t enjoy the show anymore, because I still do. I just really think they dropped the ball this season. Usually each season is a nice progression from the previous and adds on to the mythology. This season almost changed the mythology altogether. There were tie backs to previous seasons but not the seasons that we remember. And the Observer storyline I really hope pays off. I honestly wasn’t a big fan of Letters of Transit like everyone else seemed to be. I was expecting something a little deeper than “the Observers take over the world, we must stop them.” Overall, they have given me three GREAT seasons and one OK season. I’ll still be here to watch the fifth and final season and hope that they find a way to tie everything together.

    Rick

    • Hi Rick,

      If there was one thing that truly bothered me about the rebooted timeline it was the de-fanging of Walternate. He was so good! Why not explore Walter’s obverse and see how he would feel if someone stole his son? OK, for that matter, I was also ticked off that Altlivia was made to be so cuddly. In her previous iteration she was practically a war criminal and I said as much to Clint and Darrell on their podcast. It was that the Red universe wasn’t capable of humanity it was the were deeply wronged. They should have been held up as the mirror image of the Blue universe if the same thing happened to the. I thought that was the idea!

      To the gripes.

      I agree with your thoughts on Olivia. To make matters worse I think they rushed her back with Peter to satisfy all the “shippers” out there that were aching for that romance. Have you ever been to tumblr? There is an entire cottage industry involved with the love affair between Peter and Olivia. You can almost smell the perfume and roses.

      You seem to have the same problems with the “new” Bell as I do. As I told Chris above, I’m hoping there are actually two Bells involved. I think the story line of DRJ was sacrificed once the had Nimoy secured as Bell again. Poor Jared Harris, I hope he is a good sport.

      As I read your thoughts on Olivia I can only shake my head when I think what they did to her character. If Anna Torv does an Eveready battery ad I’m done.

      I have to admit I was worried about doing this post, I thought I was going to get flamed. But I see I am not the only out here that thinks this way. Like you, I am a big fan of the show and I enjoy it very much. I’ll be watching again next year and I am very curious on how much time they spend between the future of 2036 and the present.

      Thanks Rick, excellent reply.

      • Hey Dave,

        Thanks for the response. I actually appreciate you putting up this post because it has given me a chance to kind of get out some frustrations about this season. It seems everyone has loved this season so much and hardly have any issues, I feel like the party pooper sometimes. It also feels like people have moved on, so it’s not really being talked about.

        I do have a question that I have been thinking about though, and I’d like to know your opinion. What was the point of the new timeline anyway? From what I understand, September wasn’t supposed to save Peter so he went back and corrected his mistake by letting him drown. And the reason for this was because he had a baby with the “wrong” Olivia. But why can’t Henry exist? No explanation is given for this. It can’t be because they wanted Henrietta to be born because they weren’t even expecting Peter to come back into existence. If everything had gone according to plan, Peter would have stayed erased and the characters would have lived life without him. Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll get an answer to this either. It’s like “just trust us, Henry shouldn’t exist and that’s all you need to know.”

        Any thoughts?

        Rick

        • Rick, when it comes to Fringe I always have thoughts.

          I’m glad you appreciate the post. Everyone should have the chance to opine for good or bad and there is nothing wrong with a little dissent. A little rebellion now and then is a good thing.

          I take it that Henrietta had to be born to Peter and Olivia so she would inherit some of Olivia’s innate abilities. As we saw in “Letters of Transit” Henrietta could mute the telepathic powers of the Observers. Very useful in that dystopic future. A baby born to Altivia and Peter wouldn’t have this strength. The Observers knew this and therefore didn’t want any children from Peter and Olivia. September went against the plan and allowed Peter to be re-introduced thus branding him an outlaw.

          How’s that?

          • Dave,

            I could definitely buy that, and it would make sense. Except for two things. One is the fact that from what I understand, all of the Observers were in agreement that Peter should be erased after he served his purpose, which I am assuming was to bridge the universes together. But (and this is confusing) we’ve seen in this new timeline that even without Peter the machine still somehow connected both universes, and Olivia was still juiced up with Cortexiphan. If it is possible for the machine to exist in a timeline without Peter, then why did they save him? Also wouldn’t it stand to reason that Olivia could have a child with just about anyone and the child will still have that power blocking ability? I don’t think there is anything special about Peter’s genetic code or anything.

            The second thing is that even with Henrietta existing they were still able to take over the universe. The only thing special about her is that she can block her thoughts from them. That doesn’t seem like it’s a worthy enough
            power to change an entire timeline to avoid.

            Rick

          • Hey Rick,

            I see this reply to is a little out of order. Sorry about that.

            Not all of the Observers are in agreement that Peter should be erased. We’ll probably (hopefully) see more of the rebel faction that we got a hint of in season one. Certainly September is sympathetic towards that cause now and maybe we will see him join the resistance.

            I can’t tell you why the Machine exists and Peter didn’t in this current timeline. Maybe he brought the machine with him when joined the two universes together at the end of season three and it stayed there into season four but became part of their collective memories whether they knew it or not. You know, incorporated into the collective subconscious and therefore their memories except that Peter was deleted.

            We may yet find out there is something special about Peter. In the previous timeline Walter was known to experiment heavily on him and perhaps this led to a specific compatibility with Olivia.

            As for Henrietta, She just has to be in the right place at the right time to defeat the Observers. I bet it will have something to do with operating Walter’s new machine. I’m think she will be able to block their thoughts in the immediate vicinity of the machine so the Observers won’t know what the team is up to.

            OK? Have you stumped me yet?

  3. I think the aspect of Olivia remembering the original timeline makes sense. They are all the same people, just within a different set of events, rather than just different people like the alternates. In my opinion her cortexiphan re-memory suggested/ proved this.

    Also as it comes to DRJ, I thought the woman in brave new world 1&2, who was affected by the nano junk, was one of the shapeshifter 2.0s, because she reacted to being brought back in a way Nina didn’t expect. This led me to suspect she wasn’t what they expected. But since this wasn’t confirmed I guess not.

    Lastly, it’s hard for a tv show to do a god complex right. Even Buffy only got it right 70% of the time they tried it. The idea that a man so invested in science would go all Noah’s arc and think that would be plausible to start a new world doesn’t sit right with me. I am glad they had a throwback to the wereporcupine ep though, if ony to make it relevant.

    • Hi Jacob, always good to talk with another Buffy fan.

      If you recall, when Willow became addicted to her witchcraft powers, she gave us one of the finest examples of what happens to people when the believe they are given the powers of a god. I wonder if Bell will be given the same opportunity to redeem himself? Does he have a version of Xander?

      Are you speaking of Jessica Holt as the woman that was infected by the “Nano junk”? It would have been a lot more interesting if she was a shape-shifter.

      Good to hear from you Jacob.

  4. Hi y’all,

    Lot of great discussion here and I’d like to put forward this observation from the episode:

    I felt the placement of the gun that shot Olivia was so very obvious that it is more than a coincidence. Bell obviously had some kind of exit strategy as he simply vanished afterward.

    What I suspect is that Bell expected Olivia to be shot and that the bullets were not simply run of the mill bullets but were perhaps infused with nascent nanno tech which combined with the cortexifan and could lead in many interesting directions. Someone mention Olivia as the Mother or Grandmother (through Ella) of the Observers, so these nannos could be like little ‘sperm’ and lead to the creation of the observers – all male and thus unable to reproduce.

    That’s just one way my thoughts are leaning.
    ~~
    Bonita from the Fringe of Atlanta

    • Wow, yogabon that is an out there theory. Naturally, I like it. It fits in nicely with my theory of Olivia giving birth to twins. One is Etta and the other is September. Yes September dies but his consciousness is kept in a soul magnet until the nanite infused sperm can impregnate Olivia and she gives birth to the age accelerated September who promptly disappears. See, I can do crazy.

      When I first saw that pistol I observed it was a WWII type German Luger and thought it had a link to the Bishoffs of that Nazi era. (This one I’m serious about.)

      Thanks for your thoughts and keep the crazy coming!

  5. Interesting , yogabon … it was a little convenient the Luger and bullets were so easily accessable … hmmm?

    One of the few things that bothered me was the DRJ end scenario … that a brilliant master tactician like Jones would , ( with all the options at his disposal ) decide that the best plan to ” eliminate the Bishop ” would be a thuggery crowbar attack on Peter … didn’t chime right with me … Great to see Nimoy front and center and influences maximize the potential of Bell tolling in season 5 .

    I’m buckled up tight and more than willing to go on the season 5 ride .

  6. Dave,

    You asked a lot of a very little space. These are questions I’ve asked and answered myself throughout the season, so I’ll condense my thoughts here. Even though I’m going to give *my* short-form answers, I’ve a bad feeling this is going to run rather longer than I expect.

    I am completely fine with the rewritten timeline. Perhaps that is because I called the nature of it very early in the season, i.e. the ghosted image under re-recorded media. Perhaps it is because my theological position of the compatibility of predestination and free will. That latter, I believe, was one of the big points of this season. The writers did something very gutsy and pulled it off very successfully. They created paradox and rather than struggling to resolve it as most stories have done, they chose to let both stand as equally true. That is a critical point, I think. Both timeline events are real. They did happen. They have meaning. Equally. The existence of the one does not lessen the other. Yet even with all the different choices made destiny was fulfilled. Ultimately, this is the writers’ call and both histories being real is their decision. Without being able to accept that decision, I think it’s going to be hard to enjoy the show.

    The paradoxes of predestination/free-will and the two timelines might be an issue if we are looking at a closed universe, but that is not the case here. It was established early on that we were looking at an open multiverse model. Once the perspective changes to outside of the scope of a single universe, it’s quite reasonable to allow the seeming “violation” of logic.

    What this gave us, from a story telling perspective, was simply amazing.

    We were able to explore the impact one person can make. Nobody I know of liked the characters that were without the influence of Peter. We weren’t supposed to like them. It was a very interesting story for me how, with his return, the mere influence of his presence brought people back to where they belong.

    In the case of the multiple Olivia’s, the story simply carried through on the exploration that was begun in season 3. I know a lot of people had issues with Olivia making a choice of having a life with “false” memories. The problem is, that’s simply not true. Remember, if both pasts are true – and Wyman/Pinkner have already said that repeatedly – she’s not simply choosing a set of memories, she’s choosing the person she wants to be in the most literal way possible. There’s a certain beauty and elegance to that. It is the same person; the same soul, if you will. She is making the free will choice to be the better person.

    Olivia’s powers are turned off for the moment. When the writers leave such a wide open door for seeing some of her abilities return, you can be pretty confident that it will happen, though hopefully a bit less godlike. Remember, that the cortexiphan kids were created to be protectors. This was all *before* the problems of the red and blue universes began. I think that will be the Observer War, which will be the focus of season 5. I also think we will be seeing more of the activated cortexiphan subjects and most likely the red universe, as well. Nothing about what happened to Olivia was fair. That’s the point, though. She was able to rise above what happens to her and that’s what makes her a great character.

    As to how Jones was handled, that’s actually two questions. We have yet to see the outcome on the shapeshifters. Remember that there are a lot of them still out in the wild. Also remember that Bell is still out there somewhere. We may still see more in that regard. If not, they are still really a secondary element that can be brushed of as a mere tool used to keep the Fringe teams off the path of Bell’s plans. I.e., they are a tool of the story, not the story itself. Still, I would like to see what role they may have in the coming Observer War.

    Regarding Jones himself? I’ve put out the opinion elsewhere that he was essentially a surrogate for William Bell within the perspective of the story. If Nimoy was available for the entire season, we might not have seen much of Jones or at most, as merely the loyal henchman. The return of William Bell really made Jones unnecessary for the story. Sure I would have enjoyed seeing more treatment of this interesting character, but not at the expense of the main story. At least his demise had a certain justice and symmetry. If they had not been able to get Nimoy to come back, the story could have been successfully concluded with Jones.

    Good serial writing allows trap doors to accommodate the logistics of the actors. The show runners have said many times they knew where they were going with this season before the start and that they stuck to their plan. I see no reason to doubt them. Bell inclusion was simply following their most desirable path.

    Then there’s William Bell. Absolution requires repentance and while we saw that with Walter, Bell in either timeline has been totally unapologetic. I really don’t believe Bell has changed all that much between the timelines. There has been a sinister overtone to Bell from the outset and I think our love of the actor and the Bell’s affection for Olivia at times blinded us Bell’s dark side. Remember that it was the original timeline Bell that wrote the ZFT manifesto (and I’d urge everyone to re-read the known excerpts on Fringepedia to see how little Bell has changed). It was the original timeline Bell that dosed Olivia with soul magnets. Original timeline Bell that didn’t have the problems with what Walter *and he* were becoming which led Walter to have parts of his brain removed. Original timeline Bell that said, “Only those who could risk going too far can possibly know how far they can go.” It was the original timeline Bell that Walter described as ambitious, egotistical and temperamental.

    I have said in other venues that there is a fine line between hero and villain. It can only take a small nudge to push a person in one direction or the other. While even in the original timeline one might be hard pressed to call Bell a hero, I think his character in the finale also reflects the missing influence of Peter in the case of Bell, though as a side effect rather than a direct influence due to Peter’s impact on Walter, Nina and young Olivia.

    Remember that while Fringe is very much about “science” real or otherwise, it is almost as much about the metaphysical. The existence of paradox. People being what their choices make them. And even with different choices, those people ultimately still fulfilled their destinies. Not all metaphysical questions are going to have naturalistic answers and Fringe is not afraid to go there. For myself and my worldview that is a very satisfying – and refreshing – approach.

    From the Fringe,

    Raul
    @rytechgeek (twitter)

    • Raul,

      Took another look today at these new responses to Dave, thought I ‘d comment belatedly to yours, my friend. (Hope Dave doesn’t mind.)

      As you know, we have been mostly on the same page with Fringe theories nearly all season. When I first heard your feedback on Wayne & Dan’s Fringecasting way back last fall about multitrack recordings & Peter being a recorded over track, – in other words the timeline being rerecorded – I was thrown for a loop! Wasn’t even in my realm of thinking as I was entertaining thoughts of maybe it was existing in Peter’s mind and such. But as I cogitated and applied it looking forward, it completely made sense to me. So I should thank you for helping set me on the right path, lol.

      I never really gave much thought to seeing the paradox of the two timelines both being real as applying to the paradox of free will and determinism. We share the same faith and much the same theological beliefs, and I too believe in the 100% compatibility of both (I lean torward a Molinist approach I believe) so it is something I should think about regarding the timelines in Fringe.

      I agree about how Peter’s return slowly restored our characters. Good points about Bell, but I disagree a bit. The original Bell who gave up his body to get the team back to the blueverse and who voluntarily left Olivia’s mind knowing he wouldn’t survive in a computer seems to lack that meglamania we saw in the finale.

      Anyway, if they can tie both timelines together in any matter close to the things you bring up here, Fringe will have had a phenomenally thought out storyline. We will see.

      Chris
      @lostweatherguy (twitter)

    • Raul, Thanks for the well thought out and impassioned response.

      I hope you don’t mind if I answer your “War and Peace” entry with a Haiku like reply. I’ll try to keep to some of your more salient points.

      You spoke of the “ghosted image under re-recorded media”. Was this explicitly spelled out by the show runners as canon? I know the suggestion was made that it was possible and certainly a lot of the fandom of the Fringe community ran with it. But I’m not so certain it should be accepted as fact. At least, fact, as far as Fringe is concerned. If we are going to have an open multi-verse model then any change in the time line means a whole new timeline is formed that resonates differently as all the variable are played out from one universe/time line to the next. The only thing they would have in common would be the starting point. This argument precludes any “ghosted image”.

      Take the episode, “Everything in it’s Right Place” episode as sample of sorts. Agent Lee was astounded that Captain Lee turned out so very different different than himself. All it took was a conscious decision by Captain Lee and the two lives diverged into two distinctive personalities. Thus something small as this or any other cataclysmic event creates a whole new future. Otherwise we’d all be ghosted images consistent throughout any time line or dimension. Viva la difference!

      You go on to site the case of the multiple Olivia’s and our Olivia making the choice to pursue the so called “false” memories. Was it a choice? Call me cynical but I see it as an adjustment to the series long narrative where Peter and Olivia developed a relationship and the writers needed a way to resolve the mess they had gotten themselves into and finally reunite the two. There is a minor industry and or cult following entirely built around Peter and Olivia’s love affair. Pinkner and Wyman needed to resolve this conundrum or risk disaffecting a large portion of their viewership. Too convenient for me.

      You go on to say how Olivia was able to rise above what happens to her and that’s what makes her such a great character. She wasn’t able to rise above that bullet. In fact, earlier she lamented to Peter how she was just a puppet to Walter’s and Bell’s machinations and how she was that same scared little girl right now. Even after Nina’s helicopter pep talk she was still reduced to a batteries’ status that needed to be unplugged. If she was so gifted why didn’t she use her unique ability and willpower to thwart Bell and fight him on her own terms. Nope, she had to be shot instead. To be even more cynical, this was the writers thinking they are clever by mirroring what happened to Olivia in another timeline at the hands of Walternate. This wasn’t clever it was redundant!

      You make some excellent points regarding William Bell. As I told “lostweatherguy” Chris above, I originally thought Bell as a war criminal cashing in on the advanced technology of living in the Red universe. But after actually meeting the character in the form of Leonard Nimoy we saw him progressively become a better human being to the point he was willing to sacrifice himself so that the others could travel back to the blue universe. (I guess that makes him a battery also.) Leonard Nimoy said as much of his character with Clint on the Fringe podcast interview he did.

      Lastly, (cue applause, some haiku this turned out to be) you spoke of people making choices that define them even if it fulfills their destiny. Isn’t that mutually exclusive? You either have free will or you don’t. I don’t think Fringe was afraid to “go there” because it gave them an excuse to adjust the narrative to their every whim. What are the stakes if there are no rules? Why should we invest our time and energy into a character or show if the rules change so often?

      You actually speak for a large portion of the Fringe community with your point of view. I’m pretty sure I am in the minority with my views. So don’t take my criticism as a personal rebuttal. Just a counter argument to the prevailing mood of the Fringe viewing population.

      Thanks for your incisive response, Tolstoy would be proud. (I’m teasing you!)

  7. I’m OK with the universe reboot. My one reservation is that it conveniently wiped clean a lot of messy emotional baggage. In the end I’m OK with that, plenty of time has already been spent dwelling morosely on guilt. I did like the emotional hopefulness of the finale.

    I was not very satisfied with the demise of DRJ or the god complex Bell story when I saw it. If this were the end I don’t think I would be happy and not just because I am tired of mad scientist tropes. It’s just too simple given all the machinations that have preceded it. LOL, only on Fringe could collapsing 2 universes and creating a 3rd populated with genetic novelties sound simple. But really, would the shapeshifters or a lot of the other bizarro stuff we’ve seen over the years be required for this goal? If you are going to make a new universe it should be for a better reason than just because you can. (maniacal laugh, maniacal laugh…)

    I am choosing to believe that this was yet another elaborate move in a chess game that is far from over. Bell put a gun in clear view, agitated everyone with the Adam and Eve talk, and had an exit strategy. There was plenty of set up for a coming battle with the observers and perhaps the (temporary) demise of Olivia is a feint designed to lure them in. Our best weapon against you is disarmed, it’s OK to invade now. Bell has been designing other weapons to fight them as we saw: the faster gun, the stasis rune. He did this without September knowing about it. Do the other observers know? Perhaps all these world threatening calamities were designed to keep them distracted and at bay until humanity was truly prepared to fight them? Make the world inhospitable so they don’t want to live in it just yet.

    In order to defeat the observers Bell would somehow need to keep them from seeing the future where humanity has defeated them, so they don’t anticipate what’s coming. How do you hide a future from beings that can see all possible futures? We saw the beginnings of how to do that with September. He experienced time linearly for a change when he got stuck on that stasis rune. He hadn’t yet experienced the Opera house or presumably anything else after his shooting including his mind meld with Peter. Would nanites with stasis runes painted on them instead of X’s freeze the observers in time if you slipped them into their water or tabasco sauce? Or could you paint a stasis rune on a whole universe? Maybe a universe filled with a lot of nasty creepy crawly indestructible genetic hybrids? And then could you trick a race of arrogant bald guys into getting trapped there? A bunch of Adams with no Eves. I wonder.

    Season 5 cannot get here fast enough! -Lynne (@duckyislost)

    • Good point about dwelling about the past. However I wish we had the opportunity to see the original iterations of our characters work out their guilt and remorse and not the reboot versions.

      Very true that the creation of a new universe was just to satisfy the misled angst of a mad scientist. Too easy. We’ve seen it all before in much lesser shows and movies. If this was going to be the end of Fringe I would’ve much more disappointed. It seemed so rushed.

      So are you saying (3rd paragraph) that Bell planned this in order to pave the way for the Observers or to move the chess pieces in order to thwart them? I’m thinking now that Bell knew Walter would shoot Olivia to rob her of her powers and he meant for this to happen. But whose side is he on? Olivia without powers? How does that help? Bell is in the future but Olivia isn’t . I wonder what the connection is.

      If your final scenario is true I would burst out laughing at the fate of the Observers. It would be genius. Keep that thought!

      Nice work Chosen One.

      • I think Bell is moving to thwart the Observers. I think he is ultimately a good guy acting out a plan he and Walter conceived. Only Walter doesn’t remember it, perhaps because of the missing brain pieces. (boy they have gotten a lot of milage out of that) Perhaps the endgame was a plan they both agreed to, but the means to get there was up to Bell so Walter didn’t know the details. He has after all been under Observer watch since before he went to get Peter from the Red Universe. Maybe Bell has been able to hide from the Observers all this time because they are so focused on Walter/Peter/Olivia.

        I don’t know how Olivia without powers helps. Unless the Observers now no longer think she’s a threat. Whether she is or not remains to be seen. Walter assumes she will loose her abilities, but they left the door open.

        Just because we did not see Olivia in the future, doesn’t mean she’s not there. The rest of the team made no attempt to find her, perhaps they THINK she’s dead. I doubt she is. I think it would be fun if we had a turnabout where Olivia was stuck in Bell’s body :) Although Olivia, stuck in Bell, stuck in amber, handless, seems a bit much.

        OK, my brain hurts….-Lynne (duckyislost)

        • Hi Kristin,

          Were you in the Boston area when you were departing for Tampa? Checking out the real Boston and not the alternative universe Vancouver version?

          I think you’ve made a good point on how quiet the ending was for this season. If this was to be the finale I wish they would have chosen to go out with a bigger bang. So what if there was a cliff hanger involved, plenty of shows that get cancelled go out with the aforementioned and it leave the series quite memorable. A case in point was “The Sarah Conner Chronicles”, what an awesome ending! It got cancelled but I’ll never forget it and it went out on its own terms.

          The link between Olivia and September? I have a wild theory but I will save it for another blog entry.

          As for Bell and his device. A lot of people that was a “cinematic” device to make sure the viewing audience and Walter got to see the Luger pistol on the table. They did so because they wanted to introduce the gun later in the episode. Many think the gun was deliberately put there by Bell for Walter to use. I hope not. That is way to convoluted for me.

          Astrid must have gone to the FBI training center at Quanitco right? Surely she retained from there.

          September appearing to Walter before he got shot? With the warning you mean? Hmmm, I’ll have to scope that one again.

          Thank you Kristin!

        • Hi Lynne,

          Some of my recent problems with Fringe stems from the over use of some of their own devices. Like using Cortexiphan as an excuse for everything or as you stated, removing pieces of Walter’s brain. Enough already, move on to something new!

          As for Olivia’s powers, they did hint at that not everything is gone and I’m assuming she has some natural powers that the Cortexiphan enhanced. I’m sure they are still there.

          Where is Olivia San Diego? Good question. Sounds like fodder for anothe blog post.

          C’ya Lynne! Go Sox!

  8. Wow. So much here. Love it all. Quite diverse and intricate thoughts. I’m still digesting the finale, this blog post and the posted responses.

    Am glad to see I’m not the only wordy person too! :-)

    More later on the finale and this blog…..

    HAPPY FRIDAY to all!

  9. UBerDimensinul Dumb@$$,

    “Peter was removed from the time line only to be re-inserted into a world where no one knew who he was:”

    how arroghant und presumptive? you suggest a higher hand – he was removed? how abuut that was the cause-effect process of his choice. no higherhand – jutz a simpel.. I did dis, den dis udder ting hapn.

    • Chadwick, I had to put my multilingual skills to work in order to figure out what you were saying but I finally got it. (Ok, I used Google translate, so what!)

      I wasn’t suggesting that a higher power inserted Peter into the new timeline. My comments come from the perspective that the writers of the show changed his story line. I think we all know that the Machine displaced Peter in time and or dimension.

      Thanks for the feedback and the language lesson Chadwick!

  10. So many good topics Interdimensional Dave, so many good thoughts.

    DRJ practically has a built in plot line for this and other seasons.

    He’s rather like a James Bond villian that always gets away, or his doppleganer Professor Moriarty.

    I always wondered why the critter farm in Noah’s Ark got started when DRJ was already so good with Shapeshifters.

    In the first version of the red verse, its obvious DRJ traded favors or actually worked for the Secretary of Defense, since he didn’t partner up with William Bell of the blue verse covertly residing in the red verse. The creatures menagerie was William Bell’s idea.

    In this retread of the timeline, the asphalt dictated DRJ partner up with a man that had dellusions of godhood.

    What’s deliciously simple about DRJ’s character is he’s a bad guy for hire, but is nobody’s fool.

    He appears to have been stamped out of existence like a bug under foot.

    But those pesky characters have a way of skittering away to hide in the dark and come back out to play another day.

    Real question is, was that Jones? Or one of his shapeshifters?

    To date it appeared it was him, and it could definitely be Jones Prime. But nothing really excludes the possiblity of a shapeshifter posing as Jones. Although that would waste the really great surprise and delivery his pawn soliloquy. I’d hope it was Jones Prime.

    But really whether its Bell that brings him back or Jones filed an insurance policy with Savings and Shapeshifter Loans.. to paraphrase.. I think he’ll be back.

    The nice thing is Bell really could be simply dellusional and good, he was just touched in this timeline by the people in his life in a different way and led to this outcome.

    But in both versions of the timeline, or recordings.. DRJ is evil to the core.. this setback will only further his resolve and evolve his character. He’ll be back to take down the Scooby gang.

    • Exactly dirac_6955, why bother with all the Shape-shifters only to leave them underutilized. I detect a misstep by the writers there. DRJ was like a Bond villain in that he had that wicked nastiness but he had such great depth also. The way he turned to ash at the end made me think he may have been a shape-shifter after all, in that we are of like mind.

      I hope you are right in that we haven’t seen the last of Mr. Jones and too funny calling the Fringe team the Scooby Gang. I often call them the same also.

      Thanks for the response!

  11. Hi Dave, The last time I intended to comment on one of your posts I wrote my comment by hand and never found time to type it in on this blog. I won’t make that mistake twice.

    I ask for two things from a TV show (1) an internally consistent story and (2) believable characters. I can’t help it. I’m a logical person and part of what I enjoy in entertainment is following the story’s logic. Right now, at the end of season four Fringe has abandoned (1) and as a logical consequence has lost most of (2). I know the showrunners have said that seasons one through four will all be very important to season five and I want to trust them. But I can’t come up with a theory to make that possible. As a result I’m very disappointed with season four.

    For me the reboot ruined the show. The internal consistency I look for requires continuity between seasons. There is no continuity between season three and season four and that makes me feel that seasons one through three were a waste of my time. Yes, Peter and Olivia remember the events of the first three seasons but those events exist solely in their minds. They are living in a reality where those events did not occur.

    To make matters worse as season four progressed it became apparent that the showrunners were not limiting the differences between the two timelines to things that can be directly attributed to Peter’s absence from the amber timeline. How did Peter’s absence save Rachel’s marriage?

    The abrupt and very convenient revelation that Bell died seven years ago in a car accident in the amber-blue timeline proved to me that the showrunners aren’t acting in complete good faith. If that information had been provided earlier in the season it would have led to some speculation that Bell might still be alive. Very early in season four Olivia told Astrid that she did not hold her childhood experience in the cortexifan experiment against Walter. What about Bell? When she lived with Nina Olivia must have gotten to know Bell. Did she forgive him also? It’s bizarre that an Olivia who knew Bell well would never have mentioned him. Heck, why did the Olivia who at the beginning of season four was so at peace with having been a child guinea pig complain to Nina in Wallflower about the terrible problems that experiment had caused for her?

    John Noble is a great actor. He has done an amazing job of portraying seven different versions of Walter Bishop. The downside of his talent is that I can clearly distinguish between the Walter Bishop we met in the pilot and the Walter Bishop we met at the beginning of season four. Every single moment he’s on screen I can tell I’m not seeing the Walter Bishop I grew to care about during seasons one through three.

    (As a separate complaint, seven versions of the same character is just too many. I can’t care about a character who is constantly being given a new personality. Seven isn’t an exaggeration either. So far we have met: Walter 0.0 (the original Walter before he went to St. Claire’s); Walter 1.0 (the Walter who was released from St. Claire’s in the Pilot); Walter 2.0 (Red Universe Walternate); Walter 3.0 (the amber timeline Walter who doesn’t remember Peter); Walter 4.0 (the amber timeline Walternate); Walter 5.0 (the Walter who was released from the amber in 2036); and Walter 6.0 (2036 Walter after he had been injected with his own brain matter). I’m interested in Walters 0.0 – 2.0 but Walters 3.0 – 6.0 just annoy me.)

    I could go on like this but I think by now you’ve got a pretty good idea of how I feel and this is just too depressing to write.

    I would very much like to trust the showrunners and believe season five will have some kind of meaningful continuity with seasons one through three. If anyone has come up with a plausible theory why that will happen I’d love to hear it.

    • Hi Lemoneyes, good to hear from you.

      There are certain rules you have to follow in a narrative in order to preserve the integrity of the story line and its characters no matter how wild the content has become. This is where I think Fringe tripped up. You can’t just say, “poof” I’m in a new dimension or time line or body and pretend they are the same characters. You can’t. It just bends the rules too far when you claim the people are now different but the same underneath. To me that is just too fast and easy. To put it bluntly, too simple.

      You’re right about Olivia’s memories deserting her. She should have known a lot more about Bell. Complaining to Nina about one thing and being OK with it the next is a bit clumsy. Jay and Jack used to call it lazy writing. (Lost podcast.)

      Whoa, I hadn’t realized we had seen so many versions of Walter. We’ll have to keep an eye on this. If we’re lucky we’ll see a multidimensional Walter but I doubt it. Still, that would be very Fringey if they could pull it off.

      I don’t have a plausible theory yet on how they plan to tie it all together but we have all summer to work something out.

      Keep those thoughts coming and thanks.

  12. Forgot to mention that all the questions you raise in your post are interesting and troubling. I can chalk Olivia’s reacquisition of her memories up to the “power of love” that brought Peter back into the timeline even though he wasn’t supposed to be there. If love was going to triumph over the laws of physics, etc. then Olivia had to return to the state of being in love. The other questions are more problematic.

    • “The Power of Love” wasn’t that a Huey Lewis and the News song? Fringe does have the device of “Quantum Entanglement” on their side. Still, using it over and over again gets a little tired. Walter loved Peter very much also. Why didn’t the Quantum Entanglement Love Force work for him also? He had visions of Peter to start the season. His memory should have come back also.

      Aren’t I right on this point?

  13. Hey Dave,

    It’s Rick again. There was no reply option at the end of your message so I guess there’s a limit to that. Anyway, I wasn’t really expecting concrete answers to the questions that I asked, and definitely wasn’t looking to stump you. I was more along the lines just pointing out some issues that need clarification in general. Believe it or not, I usually don’t nitpick this show. Lots of people complain about ZFT not being mentioned since season 2. It’s a valid complaint since it was a major plot point in the beginning seasons, but the story had enough continuity (as far as showing two universes and them having conflict) that I could forgive that. Like Lemoneyes had mentioned there has always been a natural continuity that flowed from season to season, and it’s the lack of continuity this season that has thrown things off.

    The machine was a BIG deal in season 3. The whole season led up to it, and then in season 4 it is barely used and we don’t even know of how it originated in this timeline. Your hypothetical answer was pretty interesting, even though I don’t see how Peter could bring the machine back since September said that Walter and Olivia were responsible for bringing him back. Even if he did somehow manage that, why would the machine become part of their collective memories but Peter wouldn’t? You don’t have to answer because I guess my point is that we shouldn’t have to speculate about it at this point. Some type of answer should have been given. If we are in a different timeline and things are different, the writers should explain how and why they are different.

    Now, I understand there are still 13 episodes left, and there is still time left to get answers, but I just don’t see it happening. Even though I think certainly Henrietta’s importance will be revealed. My only worry is that the new storyline is going to be so focused on the Observers taking over that we won’t get any real closure on seasons 1-3. Seriously, if the whole endgame of Fringe is to stop an Observer takeover, I’m going to feel a bit letdown.

    Rick

  14. Hi Rick, I’m glad you are keeping up with this blog post. I meant to ask you if you are on Twitter. You can reach or follow me at twitter@interdimenldave (I think).

    I was partly kidding when I referred to you trying to stump me. Even trying to find concrete answers is nearly impossible. However, I quite enjoy the Fringe community and it gives us the opportunity to share ideas and hash out problems and complaints. Don’t give up the ship Rick, keep the nitpicks coming. Wyman and Pinkner read the blog posts so I think they’ll give credence to a little constructive criticism now and then.

    As for the Machine and Peter, remember they do share a physical bond. Peter can interface with the Machine directly and remotely with the device Walter built. (Any version of Walter will do.) I still think it is the original Machine even though some other version of Walter built it in a different timeline. I like to think of the Machine as Peter’s loyal puppy dog that would follow him anywhere. Peter activated some nuance in the Machine that erased him from the story line. That was Peter’s fault. The Machine was just following his orders. I’m sticking with the “collective sub-conscious” idea for now to make it all work for Olivia and Walter. I told Lemoneyes “Quantum Entanglement” is over used but I don’t doubt the writers of Fringe lean on it heavily to get out of any corner they may paint themselves into.

    I’ll be disappointed also if this doesn’t tie all together. I felt burned by Lost at the end and that was a JJ show also.

    I enjoy our discussions Rick, don’t give up yet and keep the responses coming. It’s an honor to be a part of this great community. I’ll keep writing as long as you all respond!

    (Hope that didn’t sound too corny!)

  15. ** Warnings, specific references to finale scenes.**

    Ah, it’s Monday already. I have pondered this blog post a bit and here is my say for what it’s worth on some of the points Dave brought up as well as the finale episodes in general..

    Overall I’d say that I’ve enjoyed Season 4 very much and feel they’ve done a good job with it. I think this is mainly due to the interaction of the two universes this season and the path that took. I can see where people have issue with Peter’s return and Olivia’s memories. To me I chalked it up mainly to cortexiphan which is the one big difference between Olivia and Walter it seems in the “power of of love” scenario. As for Walter, though he did not get the actual “old memories” back of a life with Peter, his demeanor & attitude (to me) began reflecting the relationship with Peter that was once there in my opinion.

    I decided to watch Brave New World 1 & 2 again during my flight home to Tampa on Sunday. Admittedly I have some trouble with the finale (even tho I felt it was an amazing episode and phenomenal acting). I can’t quite put my finger on why either. It wasn’t that it was more quiet ending than previous seasons either. It’s just something.

    As for the Olivia character, I am disappointed in the treatment of her in the finale. I have a feeling Season 5 will only be worse. Hope I am wrong. It does feel to me that they took what was such a complex and “survivor of tragedy” character and reduced her to merely an energy source and then flipping the switch in an instant with shooting her. Maybe more will come out in Season 5 of her importance. I also wonder when Olivia is in the lab with Jessica Holt, it occurred to me that Olivia’s “super abilities” really didn’t kick in until she grabbed Jessica Holts hand. If you recall, Jessica Holt had smudges on her fingers, maybe that held some sort of nanite trigger? Also, Walter (when the nanites were discovered) went into a very detailed explanation of their energy power & such. Perhaps nanites were transferred to Olivia when she grabbed Jessica’s hand. Then that combined with the cortexiphan caused Olivia to be be the “energy source” and have these super powers. Perhaps these nanites are simply now lying dormant requiring a specific trigger or to be combined again with high levels of cortexiphan. Just a thought.

    And by the way, I still am leaning/thinking that September is or is somehow related to the boy in the “Inner Child” episode. I mean even Jessica said that Bell told her that if she put Olivia in harm’s way, September would appear. As though they were really trying to catch September. When to me implies two things, one, that Olivia is the important one to September really; and two, that Jessica was actually after September in this episode. Yes?

    In Part 1 also, why didn’t Peter &/or Olivia recall that Bell had used an alias when he visited Walter previously at St. Claire’s? If I am remembering correctly, Bell use Dr. Simon Paris alias in prior seasons when he had visited Walter. This info may have been useful in the search for Bell. I am also wondering if anyone else thought that DRJ in the finale was perhaps an alternate? His appearance to me seemed much clearer/cleaner than we’d seen before this season with the side effects of being disassembled/reassembled. In addition, I agree with the thought about Olivia’s badge in Part 1. I can’t recall ever seeing her without it clipped to her coat/shirt (will look for that tho during the summer rewatch). Though I did notice in the beginning of part 2, even when going to Jessica’s house, she still wasn’t wearing a badge. Actually, I didn’t see her with a badge the entire part 2 either.

    As for Jessica Holt, I’m unsure and a bit confused. In part 1 there was such emotion, plus she actually was infected, etc. even DRJ said that Olivia had beat them again this time after they healed Jessica and the others. So what was the point there in connection with Jessica Holt in Part 2? In Part 2 it was obvious that she was Bell’s disciple or a shapeshifter even. I also wondered if Jessica was somehow brought from the future by Bell. Questions I have about her are things like, if Jessica is mere human, how’d the heck did she move September to the warehouse alone? Why’d she react all goofy and her speech all distorted when she spoke from the dead so to speak? Was Jessica there solely to rev up Olivia’s abilities or was there a different mission?

    Regarding Bell, did anyone notice the long attention on the device he used to project “his world”? Bell turned off the projection (or whatever) with a remote, then took what appeared to be the device used for the projection off his desk and over to the table with the Luger case. They spent quite a bit of time showing that and I have to wonder why. Also, does anyone think perhaps there may be the spin that it is because of Bell’s cancer or side effects or prolong cortexiphan use having caused this insanity?

    One other items that hit me kind of wrong and that I imagine I’ll get some flack for, is Astrid in the finale. Now I enjoy the character of Astrid very much and also enjoy and respect Jasika Nicole as an actor. I thought the scene was awesome. I also liked that Astrid got to show off her FBI chops. My issue with it is that I don’t recall even an inkling of this training in Astrid for four years (seems she started out simply as Olivia’s assistant and perhaps Jr. Agent, then Walter’s caretaker while doing a lot of cyber investigating & forensics); then now suddenly she has ninja moves and expert shooting skills. It just felt off to me, even though I enjoyed the scene. Is it just me? Did I miss something?

    As a final note, did anyone else think it seemed as though September’s appearance to Walter in the lab at the end was BEFORE he was shot? Just curious. Thanks for the read.

    Can’t wait for Season 5 and chatting with ya’ll further next season. I am serenityinall in the chatroom and @serenityinall on twitter. Thanks for reading.

    • Hi Kristin, sorry about the glitch yesterday with this reply.

      Do you think the cortexiphan that Olivia was given allowed her to access memories from another timeline or is it possible that the cortexiphan allowed Peter to imbue Olivia with his memory? Walter did allude to that earlier. They allowed Olivia to finally have an independent memory, but I don’t know, it all seems a little shady to me.

      I have a theory about September, the boy and Olivia but I am saving it for a blog post. Ha, ha!

      There was a lot of talk that the camera lingered on the device so that the viewing audience and Walter would spot that Luger gun. It was a “cinematic” device to show that the gun would play a role later in the episode. Some say Bell deliberately led Walter to the gun but I hope not. That would seem a bit silly and the previous story line unnecessarily convoluted.

      As for Astrid, surely she went to Quantico for her FBI training and she probably has to qualify for her sidearm every year. They probably call her Kick Astrid at the gym also.

      September visiting Walter before he was shot? Hmmm, I’ll have to re-watch that.

      Thanks Krisitin.

      • Thanks Dave. No problem on the glitchy issue. I’ll be interested to read your later blog post on September, the boy and Olivia! ;-)

        With Astrid, I realize that she had to go through training and qualifying and such with the FBI. I just felt it a bit odd that we haven’t ever seen evidence of this (that I recall) for four years and then suddenly *poof*. I like it though! Great acting by Jasika too, though my fav acting of hers is still when she met her alternate.

        I admittedly think that the other timeline or whatever bled through due to the cortexiphan. I think of it sort of as the camera from Olivia’s apartment Peter was trying to get an under lying image from in “The End of All Things.” It’s like when Peter was erased the “recording” of the new timeline recorded over the old, yet the old was still underneath somewhere. Also, I think about what September said in “A Short Story About Love” that his theory was that somewhere inside Olivia/Walter could not let Peter go and Peter could not let them go. Oh that power of love, The physical memories of Blueverse I think are recording over Amberverse because of the cortexiphan Olivia was dosed with. I know the theory about Peter, yet I don’t think it’s the case. Hope I’m right – ha!

        I understand what you are saying about the gun and yes, that was obvious, I just wondered if there were other reasons for the linger. Perhaps the device does something else also? Just a very loose theory – no banana bets – lol! And I agree, if it was part of Bell’s plan that would be silly to me.

        You know, it’s funny now that I’ve become more “involved” in the chatting, blogging, etc. about the show. I realize how much I actually recall, even small things surprisingly. Of course, I realize all I don’t catch either! I’m having a blast though! Can’t wait for season 5!

        Happy TGIF!

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